The Boss list and Ban list are being updated. Find out what has changed here!

And now, a word from our game designer, [Nuuh].

Hello everyone! It’s been a while since I’ve been on these forums. I’ve came back today to talk you about the two restriction lists: the Boss list and the Ban list.

First of all, let’s have a little retrospective on the Boss list’s history. When we first introduced the concept, we were rather confident, both on its principle and on the selection of characters that we made. And today, we’re satisfied of the impact it had on the metagame and how quickly it was assimilated by the community. National Championships have shown a varied metagame, and this year’s first QT show us a satisfying variety as well, comforting us in the choices we made.

The Boss list will evolve along with the new releases, changing and adapting to keep the metagame varied and diversified. Today, we will update it for the first time.

We have decided that the Boss list will be updated every 4 month starting now; however, some updates may not change the Boss or Ban list at all if the situation is stable. The next update will happen around mid-September.
Let’s see what this first revision is offering!


Theo is now banned

Theo leaves the Boss list and joins Klor Ofil in her exile. There’s several reasons for this:
  • When it comes to game design, Theo reduces too much the design space available. To explain further: when comes the time to create a new character, we start by making a base profile who must meet certain criteria depending on what role we’re aiming for that character. Once we’re satisfied, we need to test and monitor its interaction with other figurines.
    Theo forces us to abandon many ideas or mechanics that could have seen the light of day without his existence. It’s one of the profiles that “weights” the most on the entire game design process, and we have been considering his removal for several months now.
  • In terms of efficiency, even though he doesn’t dominate the game, we don’t like his influence on the whole team’s strategy, nor is ability to heal himself easily mid- or late-game after allowing a violent push early on.

Poochan is added to the Boss list

Similar to Theo, Poochan influences greatly the design space for future figurines. However, we didn’t want to ban her right out of the gate.

We think that a character that costs so little while having an immense capability for placement must be an important choice when it comes to team building, by taking the Boss slot of the team. We want the players to choose between one of the best placers of the game and a very efficient character (a Boss) as the leader of their team.

This comes together with the philosophy that lead us to put both Luk Ylook and Henual in the Boss list, as they are incredibly efficient support for their small cost in levels.
Furthermore, this will shake up the player’s habits which more often than not included her in their team without a second thought. A great example of the kind of dynamic Boss can add to the game.


Yugo – Young King leaves the Boss list

The presence of this character on the Boss list was essentially due to his incredible synergy with Theo. With the departure of the latter one, we think that Yugo’s return as a non-Boss character will go smoothly.
That’s it for this update. These changes will be applied to tournaments starting June 1st. The next revision of this kind should be published around mid-September.

The Boss list is destined to evolve. Every change we make to it is always a risk, of course, but keep in mind that the number of games we play to test those changes are lower than the amount that you, as a community of players, can make. The place where the real test will happen is between your hands.

The Boss list gives us the possibility of applying temporary and reversible changes. We will try, in the future, to apply the Boss tag right out of the gate on less character, so we don’t condemn them to a perpetual struggle against other Krosmasters from the Boss list.

While we’re at it, let’s talk about the characters who may see their status change in the future, depending on our internal development and the results of tournaments to come:
  • Poochan is still under high scrutiny. We will keep a close look to the changes brought by her addition to the Boss list, and see if this measure was enough.
  • Julith is also watch closely. We want to see if the metagame will be able to absorb her once she’s made available to a larger number of players.

Finally, I want to remind you that the Boss list is here to balance and maintain diversity in the interest of competitive play. At home, between friends, or even in tournaments made for fun, feel free to be creative and play the game as you want. You’re having fun playing Cardboard Tube Samurai with your friend? Keep doing it and enjoy yourself!

As a conclusion, here’s an updated list of restricted characters, for an easy future use:

Current Ban list:

Goldenrod Terminatot
Klor Ofil

Current Boss list:

Black Crow
Ghett Outadier
Kitty Rage
Luk Ylook

See you soon in another tournament!

Comments (25) Comment on the forum...
GrimackReapum 27 May 2016 17:31
Good to see Yugo leave the list!
#IcyTheWhitie 27 May 2016 17:45
Well after such a long time we finally get some news related to the game.

I'm glad that you are still trying to do whatever you can to balance the game, but I think that you should reconsider removing YUGO - YOUNG KING from the Boss list. It's because now he will be able to deal 5 damage with his Spirit Bam spell (4AP) using GROUGALORAGRAN in his team. That is in my opinion way too much for a Lv.4 character that has 8AP, 4MP and Counter-attack.

Also I would suggest naming these characters differently than "Bosses". It throws an impression of some kind of strong, powerful characters, while I can't say that about many of those, especially not POOCHAN, while characters like GOULTARD or NOX are the ones that would deserve to be called Bosses.

Just my two cents..
#IcyTheWhitie 27 May 2016 17:49
Also, removing (Banning) some characters is really nice, but will you be refunding the cost of these characters in fragments to compensate our loss? (26 frags. for THEO to be specific)
Koomoodoo 27 May 2016 18:32
Ohh, bad news for me. I played theo together with doo rex all the time.
Does sbd. knows other good teams with doo rex?
OneBigHullabaloo 27 May 2016 21:17
IcyTheWhitie|2016-05-27 17:49:25Also, removing (Banning) some characters is really nice, but will you be refunding the cost of these characters in fragments to compensate our loss? (26 frags. for THEO to be specific)

This is a good point. I have a Theo online that I evidently can now no longer use. It would be nice to get her refunded.
Serenaso 28 May 2016 02:25
@Icy: Without Theo, Yugo YK has pretty limited and i'd say, fair options. His big damage output depens on other Eliatropes in the team, and they're all glass cannons. he can do 5 damage Spirit Bam if you put 2x Kivins, 2x ayans and Grugal, leaving only 1 lvl left for the team... that is an INSANELY risky team. Also, Spirit Bam does neutral damage, so it can't be boosted by DR and always tosses one dice for critical, while opponent can still roll two armor dice. Also has to carefully invest into a field manipulator.
Strong, yes. not op by any chance

@Koomoodoo: Doo Rex, Henual, Ayan, Srammy, Di Curey.
A bit harder to position you pieces for big attacks, but very powerful indeed. it's been giving me good results

@BigHullabaloo: Theo's a guyrolleyes

Sidenote though: i appreciate you're banning Theo because his presence would'nt allow development of some new concepts and figures that would be very fun and powerful (but not too unfair) if he did'nt exist... but you just can't ignore Merkator when his presence is already doing this: anyone knows that if your team is focused on Air and/or Water damage, it won't be able to compete at high level unless is also carrying Malee Bhurum or Kriss Krass (big level investment and team building limitation), because otherwhise Merkator shuts it down flat
In fact, after this change to the boss/ban lists, you're going to see a lot more Malee Bhurums around. I'm happy because i've always been using her, but is also good because shecan be counterplayed and is not as easy to play as it seems at first glance...
wowxxxxx 28 May 2016 08:02
This is a decent change.
Also a suggestion i would like to make is that King Nidas should not even be a boss. I have never seen him being used by anyone only by me.
Laoviah-is 28 May 2016 16:03
I guess Gein deserve to be a boss too. He combined with Ghett Outadier is very strong
#IcyTheWhitie 28 May 2016 18:24
Gein has very few character that CAN support him, since he always starts first and making him a boss character would lower the number of these characters to near zero.
Vragar 29 May 2016 08:47
Hi all.

I will start with the positive things: I perfectly AGREE with Poochan's Boss Status.
I'm saying from the very first application of the Boss List that Poochan should be put in (and Djaul should come out).
This is a good thing for the game, imposing players to choose between the movement/control strategy and the aggressive one without possibility to insert both in a team. But there is no rose without thorns...

In my personal view of the game, since movement is fundamental in Krosmaster Arena, there will be a drawback with Poochan Boss... Other Boss pieces (maybe all the Boss-Printed pieces don't deserve this status, expecially from Season 3 like Crocabulia, Le Choque, Minotoror, Moon, Vampyro, and so on...) would se even less play than now 'cause players will use the Boss Slot for Poochan... And this will kill even more another bunch of miniatures.
And now, passing to the important things...

Am I the only one pissed off by Theo's banning?
I don't know the situation in your countries but Ankama banned (with a very weak motivation, since it's their job) a piece that helped to control many "usual famous" teams, that saw the last important results in Italy in November 2015.

Here are the results from April 2015 to May 2016... You will see no Theo (Thio in italian), except for 2 position in November 2015; in this case the format was particular, with tournament divided in two phases: in the second phase you were not permitted to use miniatures you played in the first phase, so Theo done results as a "second choice".

- Modena Aprile 2015 => Clicca qui => No Theo (but 4 Kitty Rage; thanks Boss List).
- Lucca Ottobre 2015 => Clicca qui => No Theo (but 3 Black Crow; thanks Boss List).
- Bologna Torneo a Squadre Novembre 2015 => Clicca qui => In 6 finalist teams: No Theo.
- Bologna Open Cup Novembre 2015 => Clicca qui => 1st Phase: No Thio; 2nd Phase: 2 Theo; it remains a second choice anyway.
- Milano Aprile 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo.
- Modena Aprile 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo.
- Teramo Maggio 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo (but 3 Merkator... and no intervention about it... Really?!).
- Verona Maggio 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo.

The Blitz strategy was a hold for many aggressive teams based on a single tank (Merkator, Gein) or evn against some control team (Nox); Theo apply pressure to the opponent, making her aware that she must be careful in the movement. Now the tank can go straight to the target, without caring for risks.
So Theo was a counter-strategy against many teams that could dominate the metagame (more now then previously... Just take a look at all the Merkator teams online, and tell me that there was no other piece that deserves banning in place of Theo... Really).

I personally find the motivation given by Ankama very weak.
They banned Theo because "Theo forces us to abandon many ideas or mechanics that could have seen the light of day without his existence"? Oh please! [FlameON] That's the motivation because Julith got Initiative 11 AND Unfazed? Good job then! [FlameOFF]
Working around this kind of things is the job of a game designer; I imagine it can't be always simple, but Krosmaster isn't Magic!
Magic is a game with more than 20 years on its back, and more than 23.000 cards. How can't Krosmaster be tamed, with just 3 years and almost 150 pieces (where only 40 are regularly played)?

And they banned Theo even because "In terms of efficiency, even though he doesn’t dominate the game, we don’t like his influence on the whole team’s strategy, nor is ability to heal himself easily mid- or late-game after allowing a violent push early on".
If it's too efficient, why Poochan wasn't banned too? The Pandawa appears in almost 95% teams of the whole world, and it's just a Lvl1. Sure, she is in the "Watch List" (and she will the next one to be banned in my previsions), but why is she still playable, for just 1GG risk, while Theo was a 4GG target for the opponent?
If this is the motivation behind this ban, then Julith shouldn't see the Arena at all with her teleport movement (in fact she is in the "Watch List" too, but it would be a great hit for Ankama if a whole new projected piece is going to be fixed right at the exit of the whole-new-more-balanced 2.0 edition...).

I can understand the problems that the existence of Theo creates to the game designers, but the ban is, imho, the easist way to resolve the problem, discharging it (without responsability from Ankama) onto the shoulders of their Customers... And this isn't fair.
We paied for Klor Ofil and for Theo blind boxes (or worst, for the more expensive window boxes), and now we Customers got two usless things, bought while the product is still aviabile. Using a very strong word, it's kind of "steal"; am I wrong? I feel betrayed, both as Customer and Player, by this move by Ankama.

I think that Ankama is doing a big mistake being stubborn on don't do corriges for some of their products, but this isn't the point of this topic.
The point is that I think THE BAN IS WRONG FOR THE GAME!

Klor Ofil is a piece that exists in three different incarnations:
- Profile "Competitive Tournaments" => Banned
- Profile "Online and 4Fun" => Lvl 4
- Profile "Draft" => Normally playable Lvl 2
So Klor Ofil is a piece that causes confusion in the new players, since this things of her 3 incarnations isn't knowed nor well communicated by the producer.
If I buy a blind box and go to a tournament, unluckly finding Theo or Klor Ofil, why I'm not allowed to use something that I've regularly paid for?
A product could be banned (if there really isn't another solution) at least when it's no more aviable in shops; not while it's still regularly avaible for selling!

So Ankama, please, stop taking the easy way banning wrong pieces; you made them. Take your responsability, fix them (since luckly there are just a few pieces really wrong for the game), and don't discharge responsability to your Customers that support you and your products.
Klor Ofil could be fixed in Rare, Lvl 3 and Boss, and normally played.
Theo should be just Boss, like the previous Boss List application.
If its Initiative 10 is too high, and deprives your design spaces, transform the problem into an opportunity!

I'm suggesting 3 simple ways to make the deal with Theo:
- If some pieces will be so terrifingly powerful in combination with Theo, just make them Boss from the beginning. Two Bosses = no same team; problem solved.
- Create new pieces that, similarly to the Dark Heroes, with an effect from "The beginning of the combat" until "this piece is in game" that applies penalties-bonuses to an opponent's Krosmaster initiative, changing its position in the timeline. This is an inhexplorated territory in Krosmaster, and can add new mechanichs and tactical choices for the players.
- Fix Theo!

This "preventive ban" sounds more like an excuse to me, and I feel my trust in Ankama heavely mined. I've always been an active Player (and Senior Judge), buying products, promoting the game and organizing events... Now I'm asking myself if it's worth to go on with this motivation, or looking for something else.

Sadly, an angry Matt.