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Missing the dices as strategical element

By Arohn September 21, 2015, 18:36:04

Hi fellas,

after some games now, where this stuff actually happened, I have a request.

Is there any possibility to include at least the dice choices, if I attack my own characters?

The dice mechanic works, as far as I know, the way, that the damage to the enemy is maximized, and incoming damage minimized.

There are situations, where I dont want e.g. deal no damage to myself.
Some examples given:
- Dealing damage to my own djaul 2 exchange his wounds to the enemy
- Destroy my own tower (e.g. Steamys) to reposition it
- Destroy my own mob (Block Doll) to respawn it
- Reduce the possible damage to prevent the kill, in case i got a Krosmaster with wisdom
- Kill my own Krosmaster to prevent prospecting/wisdom of the enemies krosmaster

In case, the Djaul mechanic is really frustrating:
If u start the turn, planning dealing 4 (or more) dmg to djaul, reposition him in anyway to kill a lvl1 Krosmaster of the opponent, which he normally couldnt see coming, and it doesnt work cause every Dofus is rolled on the armor side just.... sucks. (Happened 3 times in a row to me, sad story, qq and stuff biggrin)

So just asking, think you got my point..

See ya

Edit: Just saw the dice thread down the list,.. lawl, anyhow, pro dices biggrin 

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I feel like someone has brought this up before. Hmmmm, who could it be... oh right. Now I remember.

To answer your question - No - Catering to Mainstream trumps strategy on the occasions when the dice roll in a way where you would normally have a choice. They have prescribed the most common choices for you, but they will not give you control because because it would "slow down the game".

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I was going to come in her and disagree with GinjaaNinjaa, but then I thought about it and I'm not so sure.

I do think that, unlike the placement issue, there is some potential that choosing whether or not to use dice could meaningfully impact the speed of the game. That said, if implemented properly, the problem can definitely be sidestepped or overcome. A couple of check boxes signifying "use dice on enemies" and "use dice on allies" would be all that you really needed. It would be small enough to avoid cluttering the interface and if you were really concerned about overloading new players, you could make it so it needs to be enabled in a menu first. Best of all, it's integrated into the regular turn process, so you don't need to worry about it slowing down the game.

The trickier part is on Lock and Dodge Rolls. There are more situations where I don't want to lock someone then there are where I don't want to crit them (or do want to crit an ally). But Lock and Dodge can only be handled as it comes up, meaning that it is guaranteed to slow down the game at least a little bit. Armour also has this issue, although I can't think of any cases where you don't want to armour that wouldn't overlap with one of the above crit roll cases.

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I do think that, unlike the placement issue, there is some potential that choosing whether or not to use dice could meaningfully impact the speed of the game. That said, if implemented properly, the problem can definitely be sidestepped or overcome. A couple of check boxes signifying "use dice on enemies" and "use dice on allies" would be all that you really needed. It would be small enough to avoid cluttering the interface and if you were really concerned about overloading new players, you could make it so it needs to be enabled in a menu first. Best of all, it's integrated into the regular turn process, so you don't need to worry about it slowing down the game.


No. If you choose your dice crit, opponent should have the right to choose his armor dice too.

Now people start to play Djaul and can't totally abuse it like on board they complain. Summon problem online is here since start too, I have to deal with it. Online is a different game than board, that's all.

The gamedesign deal is simple "while opponent turn, online, you have nothing to do"

btw this question was on the thread just before, but don't say "it's simple to do that".
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Wendig0|2015-09-22 15:00:35

I do think that, unlike the placement issue, there is some potential that choosing whether or not to use dice could meaningfully impact the speed of the game. That said, if implemented properly, the problem can definitely be sidestepped or overcome. A couple of check boxes signifying "use dice on enemies" and "use dice on allies" would be all that you really needed. It would be small enough to avoid cluttering the interface and if you were really concerned about overloading new players, you could make it so it needs to be enabled in a menu first. Best of all, it's integrated into the regular turn process, so you don't need to worry about it slowing down the game.


No. If you choose your dice crit, opponent should have the right to choose his armor dice too.

Now people start to play Djaul and can't totally abuse it like on board they complain. Summon problem online is here since start too, I have to deal with it. Online is a different game than board, that's all.

The gamedesign deal is simple "while opponent turn, online, you have nothing to do"

btw this question was on the thread just before, but don't say "it's simple to do that".
I have already made similar suggestions to what OBH has listed here in a previous thread about this very topic. No one would have to stop anything, no one would have to extend timers etc. someone had a very good suggestion in that thread of a button toggle you hold down during a roll that would reverse the normal defaults that favor that type of roll.

Attacking enemies chooses in favor crits if the option is rolled - Toggle button held down while attacking enemy would invert that to not be in favor or crits if the option is rolled.

So for instance if you are attacking an opponents Kivin with 2 HP, but don't want to kill him with crit with a regular figure because you want to kill him with your own Kivin to get 3 gg instead of 2. So you would hold down this toggle button to indicate that you want don't want to choose crits if you have the option. Thereby increasing your chances, however subtle, but it still matters.

This toggle could work for all rolls be it Crit, Armor, Lock or Dodge if held down prior to taking an action and the roll happening and would work like any other hotkey. And while my opponent is playing I could actively hold down this toggle to tell the game how I would prefer my armor/lock/dodge to be rolled in case I want them to kill something of mine etc.

This is at least one possible solution to the reduce the disparity between online and real world gameplay.
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If online was intend as a perfect copy to board. It's not.

The game has to be simple. Not to fit hardcore gamer expectence about how they could do trick. Once you give up hope and understand that, it's pretty easy to guess "why they don't do that it's so easy to do bla bla bla".
They know that since 3 year know. They don't do it. On purpose. It's not about solutions.

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Wendig0|2015-09-22 17:22:42
If online was intend as a perfect copy to board. It's not.

The game has to be simple. Not to fit hardcore gamer expectence about how they could do trick. Once you give up hope and understand that, it's pretty easy to guess "why they don't do that it's so easy to do bla bla bla".
They know that since 3 year know. They don't do it. On purpose. It's not about solutions.
Agreed, my first response up top.
"To answer your question - No - Catering to Mainstream trumps strategy"
I definitely understand that Ankama does not want to make the two version of the game identical, but that doesn't change the fact that I think they should still observe certain core rules and mechanics. And they absolutely "could" find a way to do things like this with ZERO impact on the games current state, timing, etc. Perhaps there's just not time right now. And understandably so, because on the back end adding this feature into the die roll code is not a simple undertaking. I still think it's something they should endeavor to do in the long term.

But there are other rules that I don't think are necessary online, like the 1st player choosing the map side, and the 2nd player choosing the edge. Since the map and edge are random neither player is at a disadvantage.
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Wendig0|2015-09-22 17:22:42
If online was intend as a perfect copy to board. It's not.

The game has to be simple. Not to fit hardcore gamer expectence about how they could do trick. Once you give up hope and understand that, it's pretty easy to guess "why they don't do that it's so easy to do bla bla bla".
They know that since 3 year know. They don't do it. On purpose. It's not about solutions.
But that's like not having the double dice aspect. Honestly, that is not a complicated part that is just for diehard players. It's a normal and essential option that the game is missing since always.
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I had a stream in French last night with Huun as guest. I bring up quickly the subject of dice.

He's not involved on online game but board game, but he say that dice as they are online will not change. In another hand, he would prefer if deployement would be alternated and not hiden.

As I can say and understand, the stuff about dice will never change, it's a hopeless fight.

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Wendig0|2015-09-26 16:05:21
I had a stream in French last night with Huun as guest. I bring up quickly the subject of dice.

He's not involved on online game but board game, but he say that dice as they are online will not change. In another hand, he would prefer if deployement would be alternated and not hiden.

As I can say and understand, the stuff about dice will never change, it's a hopeless fight.
I agree, it probably is a hopeless fight, but if more people, who aren't me smile keep bringing it up, it might be worth Ankama, you know, listening to their player base. I mean it's not like people are asking for something random. All they are asking for is for the online game to reflect the real boardgame. The rules work the way they do for a reason and to omit random aspects and rules of the game in the name of "mainstream kiddies can't tolerate the wait" is flying in the face of Arena's longtime fans.
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