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Update to restriction lists

By [Dewit] - ANKAMA - May 27, 2016, 16:00:00
Announcements

The Boss list and Ban list are being updated. Find out what has changed here!
 
 







And now, a word from our game designer, [Nuuh].

Hello everyone! It’s been a while since I’ve been on these forums. I’ve came back today to talk you about the two restriction lists: the Boss list and the Ban list.

First of all, let’s have a little retrospective on the Boss list’s history. When we first introduced the concept, we were rather confident, both on its principle and on the selection of characters that we made. And today, we’re satisfied of the impact it had on the metagame and how quickly it was assimilated by the community. National Championships have shown a varied metagame, and this year’s first QT show us a satisfying variety as well, comforting us in the choices we made.

The Boss list will evolve along with the new releases, changing and adapting to keep the metagame varied and diversified. Today, we will update it for the first time.

We have decided that the Boss list will be updated every 4 month starting now; however, some updates may not change the Boss or Ban list at all if the situation is stable. The next update will happen around mid-September.

 

Let’s see what this first revision is offering!

 



Theo is now banned


 

Theo leaves the Boss list and joins Klor Ofil in her exile. There’s several reasons for this:

 
  • When it comes to game design, Theo reduces too much the design space available. To explain further: when comes the time to create a new character, we start by making a base profile who must meet certain criteria depending on what role we’re aiming for that character. Once we’re satisfied, we need to test and monitor its interaction with other figurines.

    Theo forces us to abandon many ideas or mechanics that could have seen the light of day without his existence. It’s one of the profiles that “weights” the most on the entire game design process, and we have been considering his removal for several months now.

     

  • In terms of efficiency, even though he doesn’t dominate the game, we don’t like his influence on the whole team’s strategy, nor is ability to heal himself easily mid- or late-game after allowing a violent push early on.


 

Poochan is added to the Boss list


 

Similar to Theo, Poochan influences greatly the design space for future figurines. However, we didn’t want to ban her right out of the gate.

We think that a character that costs so little while having an immense capability for placement must be an important choice when it comes to team building, by taking the Boss slot of the team. We want the players to choose between one of the best placers of the game and a very efficient character (a Boss) as the leader of their team.

This comes together with the philosophy that lead us to put both Luk Ylook and Henual in the Boss list, as they are incredibly efficient support for their small cost in levels.

 

Furthermore, this will shake up the player’s habits which more often than not included her in their team without a second thought. A great example of the kind of dynamic Boss can add to the game.

 

Yugo – Young King leaves the Boss list


 

The presence of this character on the Boss list was essentially due to his incredible synergy with Theo. With the departure of the latter one, we think that Yugo’s return as a non-Boss character will go smoothly.

 

 

That’s it for this update. These changes will be applied to tournaments starting June 1st. The next revision of this kind should be published around mid-September.

The Boss list is destined to evolve. Every change we make to it is always a risk, of course, but keep in mind that the number of games we play to test those changes are lower than the amount that you, as a community of players, can make. The place where the real test will happen is between your hands.

The Boss list gives us the possibility of applying temporary and reversible changes. We will try, in the future, to apply the Boss tag right out of the gate on less character, so we don’t condemn them to a perpetual struggle against other Krosmasters from the Boss list.

 

While we’re at it, let’s talk about the characters who may see their status change in the future, depending on our internal development and the results of tournaments to come:

 
  • Poochan is still under high scrutiny. We will keep a close look to the changes brought by her addition to the Boss list, and see if this measure was enough.

  • Julith is also watch closely. We want to see if the metagame will be able to absorb her once she’s made available to a larger number of players.

 

Finally, I want to remind you that the Boss list is here to balance and maintain diversity in the interest of competitive play. At home, between friends, or even in tournaments made for fun, feel free to be creative and play the game as you want. You’re having fun playing Cardboard Tube Samurai with your friend? Keep doing it and enjoy yourself!

 

As a conclusion, here’s an updated list of restricted characters, for an easy future use:

 

 



Current Ban list:





Goldenrod Terminatot

Klor Ofil

Theo

 

 



Current Boss list:





Black Crow

Djaul

Ghett Outadier

Henual

Kitty Rage

Luk Ylook

Poochan

 

See you soon in another tournament!


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Reactions 25
Score : 1636

Good to see Yugo leave the list!

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Score : 948

Well after such a long time we finally get some news related to the game.

I'm glad that you are still trying to do whatever you can to balance the game, but I think that you should reconsider removing YUGO - YOUNG KING from the Boss list. It's because now he will be able to deal 5 damage with his Spirit Bam spell (4AP) using GROUGALORAGRAN in his team. That is in my opinion way too much for a Lv.4 character that has 8AP, 4MP and Counter-attack.

Also I would suggest naming these characters differently than "Bosses". It throws an impression of some kind of strong, powerful characters, while I can't say that about many of those, especially not POOCHAN, while characters like GOULTARD or NOX are the ones that would deserve to be called Bosses.

Just my two cents..

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Score : 948

Also, removing (Banning) some characters is really nice, but will you be refunding the cost of these characters in fragments to compensate our loss? (26 frags. for THEO to be specific)

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Score : 75

Ohh, bad news for me. I played theo together with doo rex all the time.
Does sbd. knows other good teams with doo rex?

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Score : 745
IcyTheWhitie|2016-05-27 17:49:25
Also, removing (Banning) some characters is really nice, but will you be refunding the cost of these characters in fragments to compensate our loss? (26 frags. for THEO to be specific)


This is a good point. I have a Theo online that I evidently can now no longer use. It would be nice to get her refunded.
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Score : 387

@Icy: Without Theo, Yugo YK has pretty limited and i'd say, fair options. His big damage output depens on other Eliatropes in the team, and they're all glass cannons. he can do 5 damage Spirit Bam if you put 2x Kivins, 2x ayans and Grugal, leaving only 1 lvl left for the team... that is an INSANELY risky team. Also, Spirit Bam does neutral damage, so it can't be boosted by DR and always tosses one dice for critical, while opponent can still roll two armor dice. Also has to carefully invest into a field manipulator.
Strong, yes. not op by any chance

@Koomoodoo: Doo Rex, Henual, Ayan, Srammy, Di Curey.
A bit harder to position you pieces for big attacks, but very powerful indeed. it's been giving me good results

@BigHullabaloo: Theo's a guyrolleyes

Sidenote though: i appreciate you're banning Theo because his presence would'nt allow development of some new concepts and figures that would be very fun and powerful (but not too unfair) if he did'nt exist... but you just can't ignore Merkator when his presence is already doing this: anyone knows that if your team is focused on Air and/or Water damage, it won't be able to compete at high level unless is also carrying Malee Bhurum or Kriss Krass (big level investment and team building limitation), because otherwhise Merkator shuts it down flat
In fact, after this change to the boss/ban lists, you're going to see a lot more Malee Bhurums around. I'm happy because i've always been using her, but is also good because shecan be counterplayed and is not as easy to play as it seems at first glance...

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Score : 1102

This is a decent change.
Also a suggestion i would like to make is that King Nidas should not even be a boss. I have never seen him being used by anyone only by me.

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Score : 2

I guess Gein deserve to be a boss too. He combined with Ghett Outadier is very strong

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Score : 948

Gein has very few character that CAN support him, since he always starts first and making him a boss character would lower the number of these characters to near zero.

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Score : 1514

Hi all.

I will start with the positive things: I perfectly AGREE with Poochan's Boss Status.
I'm saying from the very first application of the Boss List that Poochan should be put in (and Djaul should come out).
This is a good thing for the game, imposing players to choose between the movement/control strategy and the aggressive one without possibility to insert both in a team. But there is no rose without thorns...

In my personal view of the game, since movement is fundamental in Krosmaster Arena, there will be a drawback with Poochan Boss... Other Boss pieces (maybe all the Boss-Printed pieces don't deserve this status, expecially from Season 3 like Crocabulia, Le Choque, Minotoror, Moon, Vampyro, and so on...) would se even less play than now 'cause players will use the Boss Slot for Poochan... And this will kill even more another bunch of miniatures.
And now, passing to the important things...

Am I the only one pissed off by Theo's banning?
I don't know the situation in your countries but Ankama banned (with a very weak motivation, since it's their job) a piece that helped to control many "usual famous" teams, that saw the last important results in Italy in November 2015.

Here are the results from April 2015 to May 2016... You will see no Theo (Thio in italian), except for 2 position in November 2015; in this case the format was particular, with tournament divided in two phases: in the second phase you were not permitted to use miniatures you played in the first phase, so Theo done results as a "second choice".

- Modena Aprile 2015 => Clicca qui => No Theo (but 4 Kitty Rage; thanks Boss List).
- Lucca Ottobre 2015 => Clicca qui => No Theo (but 3 Black Crow; thanks Boss List).
- Bologna Torneo a Squadre Novembre 2015 => Clicca qui => In 6 finalist teams: No Theo.
- Bologna Open Cup Novembre 2015 => Clicca qui => 1st Phase: No Thio; 2nd Phase: 2 Theo; it remains a second choice anyway.
- Milano Aprile 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo.
- Modena Aprile 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo.
- Teramo Maggio 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo (but 3 Merkator... and no intervention about it... Really?!).
- Verona Maggio 2016 QT => Clicca qui => No Theo.

The Blitz strategy was a hold for many aggressive teams based on a single tank (Merkator, Gein) or evn against some control team (Nox); Theo apply pressure to the opponent, making her aware that she must be careful in the movement. Now the tank can go straight to the target, without caring for risks.
So Theo was a counter-strategy against many teams that could dominate the metagame (more now then previously... Just take a look at all the Merkator teams online, and tell me that there was no other piece that deserves banning in place of Theo... Really).

I personally find the motivation given by Ankama very weak.
They banned Theo because "Theo forces us to abandon many ideas or mechanics that could have seen the light of day without his existence"? Oh please! [FlameON] That's the motivation because Julith got Initiative 11 AND Unfazed? Good job then! [FlameOFF]
Working around this kind of things is the job of a game designer; I imagine it can't be always simple, but Krosmaster isn't Magic!
Magic is a game with more than 20 years on its back, and more than 23.000 cards. How can't Krosmaster be tamed, with just 3 years and almost 150 pieces (where only 40 are regularly played)?

And they banned Theo even because "In terms of efficiency, even though he doesn’t dominate the game, we don’t like his influence on the whole team’s strategy, nor is ability to heal himself easily mid- or late-game after allowing a violent push early on".
If it's too efficient, why Poochan wasn't banned too? The Pandawa appears in almost 95% teams of the whole world, and it's just a Lvl1. Sure, she is in the "Watch List" (and she will the next one to be banned in my previsions), but why is she still playable, for just 1GG risk, while Theo was a 4GG target for the opponent?
If this is the motivation behind this ban, then Julith shouldn't see the Arena at all with her teleport movement (in fact she is in the "Watch List" too, but it would be a great hit for Ankama if a whole new projected piece is going to be fixed right at the exit of the whole-new-more-balanced 2.0 edition...).

I can understand the problems that the existence of Theo creates to the game designers, but the ban is, imho, the easist way to resolve the problem, discharging it (without responsability from Ankama) onto the shoulders of their Customers... And this isn't fair.
We paied for Klor Ofil and for Theo blind boxes (or worst, for the more expensive window boxes), and now we Customers got two usless things, bought while the product is still aviabile. Using a very strong word, it's kind of "steal"; am I wrong? I feel betrayed, both as Customer and Player, by this move by Ankama.

I think that Ankama is doing a big mistake being stubborn on don't do corriges for some of their products, but this isn't the point of this topic.
The point is that I think THE BAN IS WRONG FOR THE GAME!

Klor Ofil is a piece that exists in three different incarnations:
- Profile "Competitive Tournaments" => Banned
- Profile "Online and 4Fun" => Lvl 4
- Profile "Draft" => Normally playable Lvl 2
So Klor Ofil is a piece that causes confusion in the new players, since this things of her 3 incarnations isn't knowed nor well communicated by the producer.
If I buy a blind box and go to a tournament, unluckly finding Theo or Klor Ofil, why I'm not allowed to use something that I've regularly paid for?
A product could be banned (if there really isn't another solution) at least when it's no more aviable in shops; not while it's still regularly avaible for selling!

So Ankama, please, stop taking the easy way banning wrong pieces; you made them. Take your responsability, fix them (since luckly there are just a few pieces really wrong for the game), and don't discharge responsability to your Customers that support you and your products.
Klor Ofil could be fixed in Rare, Lvl 3 and Boss, and normally played.
Theo should be just Boss, like the previous Boss List application.
If its Initiative 10 is too high, and deprives your design spaces, transform the problem into an opportunity!

I'm suggesting 3 simple ways to make the deal with Theo:
- If some pieces will be so terrifingly powerful in combination with Theo, just make them Boss from the beginning. Two Bosses = no same team; problem solved.
- Create new pieces that, similarly to the Dark Heroes, with an effect from "The beginning of the combat" until "this piece is in game" that applies penalties-bonuses to an opponent's Krosmaster initiative, changing its position in the timeline. This is an inhexplorated territory in Krosmaster, and can add new mechanichs and tactical choices for the players.
- Fix Theo!

This "preventive ban" sounds more like an excuse to me, and I feel my trust in Ankama heavely mined. I've always been an active Player (and Senior Judge), buying products, promoting the game and organizing events... Now I'm asking myself if it's worth to go on with this motivation, or looking for something else.

Sadly, an angry Matt.

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Score : 745
Vragar|2016-05-29 08:47:56
Stuff about Theo...

Theo's ban is problematic, but for reasons other than the ones you have specified. I'll get to those in a minute but first I want to go over why Theo is not a good figure in terms of game design.

Theo has 3 big problems that all combine to make for a *very* meta game defining piece. First, he can reliably heal 4 damage each turn while also damaging enemy Krosmasters. This means that it is pretty much impossible to kill him without lots of burst damage. This isn't such a big problem in the rush-down meta that is currently popular, but becomes a greater issue if Ankama wants lessen the prevalence of those strategies. Burst damage is already getting weaker with the 2.0 DR, and although it's difficult to say how much Ankama wants to weaken burst teams, I think it's fair to say that they at least want the option to weaken them. Indeed, it can only be good for the game this to be a possibility.

Second of all, Group Transfer. When Ankama stated that Theo locks up too much design space, I guarantee that this ability was at the fore front of their decision making process. It is an insanely powerful Ability that allows a player to invalidate a huge amount of design space by dropping a whole team on top of an unfortunate Krosmaster target. There are very few ways to play around it, it invalidates most area control and movement control (ex. Percimol) design space and, tying into the last point, it *highly* rewards burst down teams. Keep in mind, this ability is problematic not only because of how it impacts current team compositions, but also potential future ones. Merkator is more obnoxious with the current figures, but he's unlikely to impact future design much. Any design space that he impacts too strongly has already been made.

Third of all, compounding the first too issues, Theo is an extremely mobile character. Without even factoring Group Transfer, he is a mid-range character with Unfaze and the ability to push himself forward. In a different package that wouldn't be as big an issue, but combined with everything else, it serves to enable him to do those things that much better.

So yes, taking Theo out of consideration opens up quite a lot of design space. It allows them to make more teleporters and burst-damage characters without worrying about Theo enabling them to break counterplay. It allows them to create more MP-reliant characters who will have to use upon less reliable movers. And it will let them move more into the territory of attrition teams without Theo completely invalidating them.

That all said, here is why banning Theo is problematic:

First of all, quite simply, they could have boosted her level like they did with Klor. You mentioned this yourself, but they could have banned him in tournaments and boosted his level to 6 in other places. It would have had a similar end result, but still left Theo as a possibility for the people really dedicated to using him.

Second of all, and this is the one that really gets to me, is that banning Theo in this manner suggests Ankama is not planning to introduce a set rotation. With set rotation, Theo would eventually rotate out anyway and his effect on game design, while still a concern, would not be nearly so dire. He'd be gone in 2 or 3 seasons and in passing many design concerns would go with him. True, he would still have an impact on forever formats, but that is a scenario where you ban pieces which are definitely too powerful, rather than ban pieces that will eventually become problematic. The metagame needs of a forever format are simple different from those of a rotational one.
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Score : 904
Vragar|2016-05-29 08:47:56

The point is that I think THE BAN IS WRONG FOR THE GAME!

Klor Ofil could be fixed in Rare, Lvl 3 and Boss, and normally played.

These bans are for competitive play anyway, so I think an errata would be the best option. It was done with Grougaloragran.

It would be the best option for Klor Ofil and for Theo.

And for Ankama and for the players. For the customers.

I have always used Klor as Lvl 3 and unique, she works fine. She is still very strong, but a strong Lvl 3 character would not hurt the meta, quite opposite. But why she is banned? Is Lvl 4 not enough?
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Score : 1514
OneBigHullabaloo|2016-05-29 20:58:26

That all said, here is why banning Theo is problematic:

First of all, quite simply, they could have boosted her level like they did with Klor. You mentioned this yourself, but they could have banned him in tournaments and boosted his level to 6 in other places. It would have had a similar end result, but still left Theo as a possibility for the people really dedicated to using him.

Second of all, and this is the one that really gets to me, is that banning Theo in this manner suggests Ankama is not planning to introduce a set rotation.

Thanks for your detailed answer OBH.

The first reason, auto-healing, could be simply resolved with a little corrige on Theo's power. Instead of automatically heal by 1 when he cast a spell, trigger it when Theo does damage. 2 less injuries healed per turn. The spell "Vampiric Wakfu" is ok.
This motivation should fall onto Merkator too... Merkator can attack for 3 in Shovel Area with Pulverisation, giving you -1MP in the meantime, and retreats too. After that, he can heal himself by 1-2 with Drain... Oh and remains 1AP to buy DRs, farm kamas or use Lightening (or other DRs). This isn't too much?
Attacking and healing toghether... That's the same thing.
Ankama probably done a superficial work while testing Theo, but this lack can't fall on Customers/Players simply banning a piece. Other solutions, more respectful, should be used.

Group Transfert is indeed a cool spell with a powerful effect, but it's always an All-In strategy.
If you can do the Blitz and kill the target ok, but there are always dices to ruin your plans... And if you can't realize the plan, you're almost dead the next turn.
With the new 2.0 DRs, as you said, bursts will be limited so using Theo for this All-In strategy will be more risky than now. And more affordable to face on the Arena.
I really don't get the design-space-theft thing. I mean, there are people in Ankama paid for this R&D job. They should find a solution without ban; ban is likely washing their hands off the problem, like Pilate.

Confronting with Merkator, the steamer is stealing space onto the Arena from S1; people can't play Percimol or even Goultard because of Merkator... Probalby Merkator, from Duel Pack #1 was created to face Goultard's Sword of the Just, but his power, summed with 2 resistances, high LP, self mobility to disengage melee AND a cure spell remains a problem even nowadays. How can you say that Merkator isn't an "impacting" character even for the future miniatures?
At least Theo given birth to a strategy, Blitz, and to a "pressure" style of game against aggressive teams; now aggressive teams have no obstacles. Merkator created just obstacles to other pieces.
The metagame will probably be divided into melee and distance teams, without the Blitz's threath. And this reduces the flexibility of the metagame.

For the third point I've just one word... Julith.
Theo was a high mobility piece? With 3MP, Wakfu Limit and Group Transfer he can move on by 8 tiles... With 2AP left for an attack with Vampiric Wakfu... WOW! 2 damages (with Critical) targeting maximum at 11 tiles! And Theo stills into the enemy lines for an awful end...
Excuse me for being sarcastic, but Bill Tell does the same thing (2 damages with Critical, at 11 tiles of distance) remaining safely into your part of the field.
It's obviously a paragon to support my thesis, not too objective, but take now a look to Julith...



Same level (4), 13LP against Theo's 10 (but Theo can auto-heal), potential target 7 tiles for a maximum damage of 4 damage (up to 6 to the main target at 6 tiles) with Breath Area, against Theo's potential target 11 tiles for a maximum damage of 2 damage... Both are Unfazed.
What's the difference?
Julith can be killed with a very hard effort, and can return to safety the next turn by 5 tiles with MP and Escapade; in the meantime she done 6 damages to the main target and 4 to the secondary ones.
Theo can be killed with less effort, and can't escape since almost all the characters got 3MP and his Group Transfer is an Ultimate...
I think that Julith is FAR MORE dangerous than Theo. She is in the Watch List, but wasn't projected as Boss from the beginning... And Jahash (a piece weaker than Julith) yes... So why? This is nonsense.

Things should not be resolved "like Klor" with a mess of different version. Just one.
Fix her and let people play her (since we paid for her); but fixing must be done with objectiveness, leaving the character playable... I've see NO ONE playing Klor Ofil as Level 4; that's not a fixing... That means "We don't want to let you play Klor, so, if you're really so stubborn, play her as a Level 4 with 7LP you poor fool".
A Level 3, Rare and Boss should be a great solution for Klor; a fair fix, heavy but not unplayable as it's now. The same should be done for Theo...
The problem is auto-healing? Fix it with "when Theo DAMAGES" instead of "when Theo TARGETS" .
The problem is Group Transfer? Fix it with "AN adjacent character" instead of "ALL adjacent characters".
Make Theo Level 5, Rare, Boss and the thing is done.

If the problem is really the interaction with the future developments, there are other pieces that should be put into the Boss List: Poochan (the brand new Boss), Lou, Srammy, Khan Karkass at least...
And other Boss pieces shouldn't have that tag: Crocabulia, Moon, Le Choque, Djaul, Vampyro, Grugaloragran at least... (All from S3: coincidences? I don't think so)
Other new pieces should consider the huge sinergy with the actual Boss List: Bakara at least... (Bakara + Henual means 3 attacks per turn, with 2 dices, at distance 7, for an easy 6 damages; it's like a new Kitty Rage! No one can see this? Am I the only one?).

I remain of the opinion that THE BAN IS WRONG!
It's an easy solution to problems, without assuming responsabilty for mistakes. Mistakes can happen, but must be solved with the efforts of the responsable who created them; not discharged onto others' backs.

About the Game Formats, I thins that is an inevitable and necessary step for the future of Krosmaster.
At least 2 formats should exist:
- Format 1.0, playable with 1.0 DRs and ALL pieces created from the beginning, with the Boss List and WITHOUT a Ban List.
- Format 2.0, playable with 2.0 DRs and just the last 2/3 sets, without Boss List nor Ban List; when another Season will come out, the oldest exits the format joining others in Format 1.0.

I really hope that Ankama is considering this thing, and that is waiting for S4 or at least S5 to implement that (so we will have 3 seasons composed by 16 character to choose from).
It's a natural way for ALL collectable games... Or will Krosmaster turn into a board game (like the actuale care seems to suggest)?
We will see. I really would like to talk with someone at Ankama's R&D sector for the future of Krosmaster, confronting ideas and talking about projects for the future... I think that many good things could born.

Have a nice game (if you can)! Matt.
___________________________________________________________________

P.S. I like to talk with you OBH. smile
___________________________________________________________________

P.P.S. I hope that Dewit, or someone from Ankama, will join us in this discussion bringing the producer's point of view and opinion into the discussion.
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Score : 904
Vragar|2016-05-30 10:54:50

I remain of the opinion that THE BAN IS WRONG!

It makes me think: "Is the ban really the best solution?"

And the answer I get inside: "No."
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One think I like to point out in this conversation:

No updates to the cards. No changes in the profiles. That is the limit since day one, as it is almost impossible for players to keep this kind of info up to date in a reasonable manner (there are still newbies coming to tournaments with Klor, despite her being banned since 2014). An errata if the card was mis-printed, like Grougaloragran, absolutely; a balance after the release, that's not possible.

Yes, I know Klor doesn't fit this mold, but this was a change early in the life of the online game, and we would probably do it differently nowadays. I have to consult with the online team to know how Thio will be handled, by the way, I'll tell you as soon as I can.

So updating characters in order to nerf/buff/alter/balance a character are a no-go. Putting them on a list that says "This characters is a Boss during tournaments" or "This character is banned during tournaments", that is a compromise we're ready to make.

Also, I see the "format" argument thrown around a lot, and yes, that is part of our plans. But we must wait until season 4 at least before doing this split, in order to keep an acceptable number of figurines available in smaller format, to keep variety. (And of course, a format where every season is available will be in place too, so you don't have to throw your figurines away at all)

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Score : 128

The only valid reason for banning Theo would be that he impedes the design of new models. But even here you had better solutions. You could just add to that models the rule:
Ancestral enemies: this krosmaster could not be included in any team with an Eliantrope on it (or just Senga).

Theo has no effect in the meta of the game, he is barely used. Whereas Merkator always has an effect in how you create your team. You can't base your team on water and air damage because it's quite probable that a Merkator will come up.

Well this updating of the ban/boss list, the format at least show that you place interest in the game to be alive. IMO the biggest problem in Krosmaster nowadays is that no new figures has been released for a long time. That has made a lot of players to put the game aside or directly abandon it.

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Score : 395

Hello,

we can discuss a little bit, if you feel like that.

Sadly, it's tricky for me to enter a public discussion, because every word i'll use will be misinterpreted, and these discussions are endless.
Game design is a subject so vast and complex, we could never ending a public discussion, in particular if a lot of people join in as the discussion goes on. Everybody would have a different point of view on the matters, as you saw everybody wasn't as hurt as you.

To start, I don't think there is a perfect solution to each problem in game, it's more there are various solution (far from perfect) and we have to select one taking into account a maximum of parameters.

We choosed one of these after discarding a lot of other solutions. We did not take lightly to proceed with an other Ban. It truly is an important decision, and we pushed hard to find other way to resolve that matter, but nothing was as efficient (on a lot of parameters) as this ban.

We are aware of the disappointement some players are sharing, so I'll add some thoughts to explain more our decision.

First, Boss&Ban are not "Forever". It's easy to say that when Klor is still in the banlist after 3 years, but i mean it. For example, Yugo - Young King that leaves the Bosslist. It's a sign of our willingness to give the maximum opportunity to characters to not being tied to a list.
When the refreshment will be every 4 month, it'll probably be easier to experiment, and give characters a chance again.
Maybe later, a different solution will be implemented to the problems that Thio causes, in that case, he'll probably come back too.

Second, Krosmaster doesn't exist only as sanctionned tournament. You can still play Thio in homemade format tournament, you can play it at home too, with your friends. And as mentioned, one day we'll see different format :
- Rotational
- Eternal
- Others

That's the course of most of collectible games, and Krosmaster probably will follow this path too.

Thio probably won't be banned from all sanctionned format in the future. But i insist, you can play Thio for fun, even today. We didn't destroyed the character, and you should keep it preciously because who knows what the future deserves.

Third, the game is young, and nobody understand it perfectly. You mention Magic, but Magic R&D are doing a "lot" of mistakes even after 20 years. And bans happens there and there. Birthing Pod for example was banned, i think it was in 2015. This year, they made cards that utterly dominated modern and were instant ban at the first Ban refreshment.
We're not exempt of doing mistakes too, and as i say in point 1, the Boss&Ban list is here to evolve, so if we see that something must be unban, it will.
We're here to give you opportunity to make the Meta changes, one of the mainsource of these changes is new products, an other one is the Ban&Boss list.
You speak about assuming our errors, that's what I think we're doing. We conclude that it was for the best to ban him; and I prefer to take on me the critics of the disappointed players than let the situation grow in something that I judge worse.

Fourth, there is more constraints than you think that we have and want to take in account. A simple example :
We can't mess with the initiative. Why ? Simply, because online can't afford it. But even, i don't think we're ready to mess with it, there is a lot, a lot of consequences to that. On top of that, making hard counter is not so good in a game without sideboard (yet...), and with every piece directly available.

We tried a lot of stuff, we thought of different possibilities, some that are hinted in this thread had a try given.
We could go on, debate of little detail on gamedesign and the challenge to maintain and making grow a collectible game as Krosmaster.

I'll try to share more of my thought on Krosmaster design's process.

There is one last thing about this change that i want to point out :

We're here, alive. We're working on the future, a lot of stuff is coming, for this summer, and so on. It was a long hard winter, but Summer is now coming.
And while I knew that everybody wouldn't be happy at first with the ban of thio, i'm sure that the next stuff we packed up for you will enthusiast everybody.

Stay Krosmasted !

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Score : 948

Merkarator and Captain Amakna are the cancer of this game. Just saying...

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Score : 948

Anyway, thanks for the time Nuuh you took to inform us about the thoughts behind the game development, I appreciate it.
Even though sometimes it may seem that there's nothing is happening to this game in a longer while, we know that there is. And that's good.

I'm looking forward to see what this game has to offer in summer.
Cheers!

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